The poet and performer is a veteran of the Dutch grassroots movement
~ Christiaan Verwey, Buiten de Orde ~
Last night you were with your band Your Local Pirates in Burgers in Eindhoven. How was that?
It was a successful evening with a mixed audience: from young punks to old regulars. Everyone was equally enthusiastic. Also during our more radical numbers. That was surprising. We played together with the dirty folk band Per Verse Vis. Very nice music that is good to dance to. In terms of content it did not really connect to our political message, but it was a nice party.
What would you most like to be called for? A poetry recital, a performance, or an action?
As long as it can be combined with an action, I don’t mind. Together with Peter Storm I am part of Your Local Pirates. We use music as part of the fight. That is what we like to do most. As a motivator, encouragement and possibly to stir things up a bit. If this works I will be very happy. People can certainly approach us for this. And of course also for a poetry recital or an action to participate in.
What role does anarchism play in your life?
It is a guideline for how I live. Helping each other, supporting each other, making decisions together. We make music very clearly from an anarchist point of view. For example, we do not want to make a profit and we believe that our texts and music belong to everyone and can be used by the movement. In fact, anyone who wants to use it for a demonstration does not even have to ask. That is also anarchism for me.
We are still far from an anarchist society. We have the climate crisis, Israeli colonialism and the global rise of the far right. Where do you start and where do you prioritise?
A very difficult question. For years I have been committed to the No Border struggle. I increasingly experienced this as heavy and difficult. At a certain point I didn’t know anymore. Eventually I stopped and focused on actions against foie gras and against the closure of an wildlife corridor at the Hoge Veluwe. And so I remain a bit searching. There are so many important struggles. I am non-binary myself and active in the queer struggle. And I also see this as part of the struggle against the rise of the extreme right. The policy of the extreme right has an influence on society as a whole. Also how the agro-industry is treated, with refugees and how Palestine actions are responded to. I would prefer to be active on all fronts at the same time. But unfortunately we only have 24 hours a day and I also have a private life that deserves my attention. In fact, it is always a balancing act between the different priorities. Lately I have mainly tried to seek out the struggle closer to home. I think this is the most effective. You know your surroundings best, your fellow activists and the advantage is that you don’t have to travel far. Among other things, I am active for the Zaankanters for Palestine. With this group we also try to connect locally with as many other clubs as possible, such as squatters and Extinction Rebellion.
If you compare the current action movement with that of the 80s you see big differences. How do you experience that?
In the 80s I experienced a lot of intense things. For example, I was one of the co-detainees of Hans Kok who died in a police cell in 1985. If you are in a cell and you hear that one of your fellow comrades has died in a similar cell, it does something to you. And if someone then screams or cries out of anger or sadness and is addressed by the guards with the threatening words ‘do we have to come in for a moment’, that is of course traumatic. And also after an incredibly violent eviction of a squat. That is unprecedentedly intense. In those days we had no support and recovery , which we now know within the anarchist movement. You were released, you drank a pot of beer in the squat café in the evening, told tall tales, soaked in a lot of grief and anger, and you kept on pounding. Before you knew it, another big event was already on the horizon.
You sometimes join XR actions. How does that feel for you?
Well, I got involved with XR in a rather special way. Last year I was arrested for sedition because I called online for an A12 blockade. At that moment, five other people were also dragged from their beds. And I was the only one who was not involved in the organisation at all. Together we prepared ourselves to come up with a coherent story for the lawsuit. Which I think went well. Through all the talking we got to know each other well. And despite the fact that I had a much more radical attitude, I had very good contact with my co-defendants. I felt welcome and appreciated by them. However, I do have difficulty with XR’s consensus on action, especially the far-reaching pacifism. I myself believe that you are allowed to resist police violence and attacking fascists. And no, I have never followed one of their action training courses. Why would I? I have enough experience. The nice thing about XR is that they also spend a lot of time on wellbeing.
More and more people dare to say that they are dissatisfied with the political system. The far right is cleverly exploiting this. Isn’t this the right time for the anarchist movement to stand up and make a counter-voice heard?
Yes, we should definitely do that a lot more. I think it is important to show ourselves in demonstrations. For example, we participated in the last climate demonstration with an anarchist bloc. We handed out flyers with information about who we are and what we want. And of course with the call for people to join us. I would really like to see a lot more anarchist flags in demonstrations. Many people have no idea what the meaning is of the colours black-green, black-red or black-purple on a flag. A great way to start a conversation with people. This can also be done through other activities, such as handing out food or clothing on the street. Of course, it is also important to write about anarchism. But visibility on the street is what I think is most important. Music can certainly play a role in that. With our duo Your Local Pirates we express the anarchist idea. Our lyrics are anarchist and we tell all sorts of things between the songs. When we are playing on the street somewhere, that has an important function. Mutual help creates beautiful things. We also played at a food distribution activity in Utrecht. A lot of people came by to eat, pick out clothes and we were there with music and our political message. Really great. That’s how we were able to bring our musical message to Palestine camps. This is what we like to do best.
Which performance do you look back on with the most pleasure?
We wrote a song about squatting, which was picked up by the Woonstrijd. The song is called ‘What is not allowed, that is still possible’. We were asked to play this song at quite a few demonstrations and manifestations. Now that people are starting to sing this on the streets, I think: that is really spot on. We also wrote a song about the climate battle, which we played at the big climate march in 2019. When we participated in the big demonstration in The Hague, we had a megaphone and a guitar with us. We handed out flyers so that people could sing along. This was really great. Of course, we hope that more people will do that. And I also have the idea that more and more people are singing at actions and demonstrations. I am happy about that.
What kind of music do you prefer to listen to at home when there is no action or demonstration planned and you want to relax?
In the car I often put on the concert channel. This is a classical channel. When I am tense or stressed, I love to listen to this. For the rest I am an old rocker and I like to listen to bands and artists like Randy Newman, Lou Reed, the Velvet Underground, King Crimson and the Soft Machine. Of course it also depends on my mood. For example, I sometimes love to listen to free jazz.
What song would you like to contribute to the soundtrack for the revolution?
Because I saw that question coming, I prepared myself for it. I translated a song called L’estaca by Lluis Llach. He is a Catalan singer. It was written in the time of Franco. At that time, you could not openly oppose the dictator, because that would cost you your head. That is why he made a song around a metaphor, a stake that we are all tied to. And if we all pull hard on that stake on our side, it will eventually fall over. I translated it into Dutch, then it is called De staak. We play this with Your Local Pirates. I would like to add that song. But then in one of the many translated versions, namely that of the Klezmatics. Their performance is in Yiddish and is called Der Yokh . I think both the language and the music are incredibly beautiful.
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